Re: 1660 and all that

["Richard Torrens (genealogy)" <torrens@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 28 Nov, Lunney Family <jglunney@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Dear Ricahrd, good to get a long letter from you again. Here is a copy of
> an attachment sent me by Judy H.

.. snipped ..

I started trying to make some sense out of the data I have: I've got
Kernohan's notes, which of course don't go much later than 1821, he wasn't
interested n the later church records, so I have no transcript of actual
data.

Then there's Lavonne's HTML...
moneydigpresgraves.html
has a long screed starting with Smyth's gravestone and listing lots of
other related documents in such a way that I can make little sense of it!

But I pickup up the page a long time ago, so maybe she's reworked it since.

However, I've attached the text extracted from it. Can you translate it?
It's easy enough to pull out 1796, 1818, 1821 records, but it's not clear
to me what is the 1825 visitation list: probably because I have no record
of this!

It's another fine example of having an interpretation of the data - not
the data itself!

> I pulled my hair out overthis all, because I had--on the basis of best
> fit and reasonable assumptions--come up with quite a different family-or
> rather two families. I put herin touch with Dan Wilson who is
> researching co. Derry families in Mauch Chunk, and has two Torrenses
> marrying some of his folk there; I haven't heard from either of them
> since- they must be knee deep in Western Pennsylvanian/derry links.
> Mauch Chunk must have been solid Derry in the 19th C.  I finally
> swallowed a slight amount of  pride and admitted that her aunt Kate
> probably knew more about her own family than I did; so I accepted her
> version, and amended my data accordingly.

Then we need to decide first exactly what data we do have?

> Re the Robert in Mayoghil;

Are we talking of the one who went to America? I guess we have to be.

> there is also a Robert in another earlier line; perhaps in carnroe, if
> Annie'e theory is right, that William the executor of Alexander's will
> is of Carnroe and that it is is his son who is bequeathed the £2 in
> Mulahinch's will.

The tree fits with American Robert being bequeathed a 'hands across sea'
memento. But really that's all that can be said for it.

We do not know of any other Robert. But either it is American Robert, or
it's not! We have no other Robert on record. Apart, that is from Rev
Robert of Kilrea!

William is a Vow/Ferry/Carnroe name.

> Your father always harked back
> to a Robert in Hairmyers or Quhythills or wherever in Scotland.

Yes: but he was possibly seduced by his own name? I see no reason to link
to any particular person in Scotland! I have found no record of my
father's reasoning either.

> What do you think of the possibility that John the labourer in Mayoghil
> is from another line, who married or moved into Mayoghil; from Myletra
> or wherever; maybe working on the bleachgreens.

Speculation. Pure speculation! But then so's everything else! It's
possible, I don't see reason to prefer it go any other possibility.

> I don't see that there
> is room for him in the mayoghil lineage as we have it in the letter. Of
> course he may have married Thomas' daughter Mary? Except if so she would
> have been 35 in 1796 in the Garvagh census, which was very old to be
> still at home. I wonder if the ages are wrong in the census at this
> point? 46 was very late to be producing babies; I wonder if both of them
> should have been read as 30 rather than 50--as you say, errors in
> transcription can be more easily suspected than proven. Enough for
> tonight.

Lest you start to ramble?.... Such speculations would be exceeding useful
- if they were possible to check.

I saw Hugh ay the weekend. He suggested that there must be somewhere an
archive of Kernohan's own records. Any ideas?

> All the best Linde I'll look up your site re the John/Jean
> nexus. We should be disciplined and keep to one point per letter until
> we hammer it flat

Ah - but you rather enjoy losing me in speculative rambling, I think? One
point per letter - I might just cope with.

-- 
Richard Torrens  - torrens@xxxxxxxxx
Torrens families Genealogical site  http://www.4QD.co.uk/torrens/
Torrens Mailing list: to join, click on the link below.
<mailto:torrens-l@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=subscribe>

TORRENS

ERECTED

TO

THE MEMORY OF

SMITH TORRENS (of) COOLNAMAN

WHO DIED 10TH JANUARY 1887

AGED 92 YEARS, (born 1795)

1796 1st Garvagh Presbyterian Church, Minister's Visitation Record

Samuel TORRANCE

Mary Ann (wife)

Children:

Alexander

Andrew

James Wilson

Mary

Thomas

Margaret

Samuel 

Smyth (the above Smith Torrence Tombstone,

youngest child, about 1year old in the 1796 visitation record)

1818 1st Garvagh Presbyterian Church, Minister's Visitation Record

Widow TORRANCE

Children:

Smyth TORRANCE 

William TORRANCE

Margaret TORRANCE

Ann TORRANCE

1821 Census:

Widow TORENCE, age 54, flax spinner

Smith TORENCE, age 24, her son

Ann TORRENCE, age 19, her daughter, flax spinner

William TORENCE, aged 16, her son, weaver

1825 1st Garvagh, Minister's visitation record,

Smyth TORRANCE

Mary TORRANCE

Children: Mary Jane TORRANCE

Margaret TORRANCE

ALSO His Mother:

Widow TORRANCE

Children: 

William TORRANCE

Ann TORRANCE

AND HIS WIFE MARY

WHO DIED 4TH OCTOBER 1870

AGED 66 YEARS, (born 1804)

MYRTLE M. KENNEDY

AGED 5 YEARS

MARGARET M. KENNEDY

DIED 9TH MAY 1991

AGED 84 YEARS, (born 1907)

(August 1998 Interview with Smyth/Smith KENNEDY at his residence near Coolnaman, stated he married 
Margaret "Daisey" Morrison. Issue was one Child, the above Mytrle who died young. Smith Kennedy 
stated his father was Samuel Kennedy who married Mary Torrens, daughter of Andrew Torrens and 
Nancy WOODS. Lenna Kennedy stated to me that Mary Torrens, wife of Samuel Kennedy, had at least two 
sisters. Kitty (Catherine) married William Kennedy who lived in Caheny. Second sister, Jane Torrens 
married Samuel Hazell. (Marriage, Moneydig Presbyterian Church, Andrew Torrens, son of above Smith 
Torrens of Coolnamen, married 27 September 1871 at Moneydig Presbyterian Church, , Nancy WOODS of 
Coolhill, daughter of Thomas Woods. 

To the marriage of Samuel Kennedy and Nancy Woods were the following Children

1. John Kennedy married in the Tivocy District, Ruth Whitehead, a girl from Tamlaugh, above Kilrea

2.Hugh Kennedy emigrated to Philadelphia and married a girl there, name unknown)

3. Andrew KENNEDY never married and inherited the homeplace from his father. Andrew was in poor 
health suffering from high blood pressure. 

4. Smyth Kennedy, born 25 July 1907, married Margaret "Daisey" Morrison, born Feb 1907 in Coleraine.

5. Samuel KENNEDY, named after his father, never married. When his brother Andrew died, Smyth 
Kennedy inherited the homeplace from Samuel. 

6. Torrens KENNEDY married Lilly Stewart, a high school teacher, who lived in Portstewart. Torrens 
Kennedy died at Portstewart. Both are buried in Portstewart.

7. Lenna Kennedy, married John Gregg amd has 2 children.