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Re: 1796
- To: Lunney Family <jglunney@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: Re: 1796
- From: "Richard Torrens (genealogy)" <torrens@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 18:59:57 +0000 (GMT)
- In-reply-to: <v03130300b46deae75767@[159.134.227.38]>
- References: <S96abc7f0etorrens@4qd.co.uk> <v03130300b46deae75767@[159.134.227.38]>
- User-agent: Pluto/1.13f (RISC-OS/3.70)
On 03 Dec, Lunney Family <jglunney@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Dear Richard, I'm going to shock you rigid! I've been psyching myself up
> to this all evening--Yes,let's suppose that some stupid amateur
> genealogist, who had better remain nameless, couldn't read 18th C.
> uneducated handwriting,
Doesn't have to be very stupid either! Except to read Aaron for Alexr.
> and misread Alexr--the standard abbreviation for Alexander--as Aaron. I
> can't quite write Alexr to fool myself that it's Aaron; but I am going
> to look up some samples of mid-18th C. handwriting to see what can be
> done. I have a sample of 1801 educated handwriting from the Dunboe
> minister, and Alexr is there plain enough, but that's 50 years later and
> educated.
I have some copies of early Scottish documents, which are another
language! You really have to know what they say to translate them. So
names are incredibly easy to misread.
Problem is: once misread, they remain. Especially as the source is hardly
ever quoted so cannot be checked. Which is why I'm trying to get records
as close to the original as possible.
I read the photos of the letters in JST: I spotted several reading errors.
American culture is different to ours: we are closer to the originals, so
less likely to misread. It's a pinch of salt to be applied to Lavonne's
work.
> I will also run a check on our database at work and see how
> many 18th C. Aarons there are..... If we do substitute Alexander for
> Aaron , you get some interesting results. First of all, let's consider
> the children of Samuel T. from the LDS site; I seem not to have the
> relevant section of the xerox of RM Torrance, so I don't know whether he
> has this list or not.
Why Alexander? Are there no other contenders? We must try not to massage
facts to much in order to make them fit!
But I agree the theory bears investigation.
> Anyhow; from the LDS site--Samuel, b. 1719 in Coolnaman, d. 1788
> Woodbury, Connecticut. This is the Samuel who acc. to RMT had a brother
> Aaron.
We know that Jean's John had brothers Samuel and Thomas.
> The LDS list says that his eldest son is Thomas, his second is
> William, and his third was Alexander. No Aaron in the list. This makes
> it look likely to me-at least when I'm in this mood-that Samuel had a
> brother Alexander rather than a brother Aaron. Incidentally this is the
> same family that those Tuttles descend from. Her paper has a selection
> of the children of Samuel b. 1719, who actually had 11, acc. to the LDS
> site list.
Yes: but could there actually be two Samuels and/or two Thomases who were
elided?
The Tuttle paper appeared to be of major interest, but we mustn't let it
strengthen fiction.
Tom Fetters has jumped on the paper, maybe others also will. You should
answer him via the list.
> Also from the LDS site, the Aaron who married Susanna Finlay
> from Armagh and is said to be from Coolnaman; if you substitute
> Alexander, you get an Alexander as a contemporary of Samuel, Thomas and
> John--he is said to have been b. 1723; Samuel was born 1719, John b.
> 1717. So he could have been a brother; John and Samuel had sons
> Alexander, perhaps Thomas had too, I haven't got the appropriate section
> of RM Torrance.
Attached. Children of Thomas, Samuel and Aaron.
There's also Thomss m. Eunice Lacey: I was not sure if the Tuttle paper
had got these two Thomases mixed.
Aaron's son Joseph had son Aaron, see the 4th tree in attachment.
> We conjectured that John's father was Alexander, and so
> it could well be, Anyhow, if we now have an Alexander b. 1723,
> married to Susanna; then we have in Culnaman in 1796 a John, whose
> family includes an Alexander and a Susanna; the Alexander b. 1723 dies
> in Chester Pennylvania, to which there is a close Culnaman tie, in that
> Jean's son John is there before 1804. Acc. to RMT, Robert Torrens of
> Mayoghil went first to Chester, before going to Woodbury
> Connecticut--that is, to the home of Samuel and Thomas; I distrust RMT
> so thoroughly that I'm not going to pin much on this, but we do have the
> evidence about Jean's son John.
Yes: it's all plausible, but so is any good hypothetical genealogy. It's
probably as good as any of the existing works of theory, but not good
enough to demolish them!
> One of the LDS records lists an Aaron as a brother of Hugh 1665-1712 in
> Culnaman; again, if you substitute Alexander you get something
> reasonable enough; the site says that Alexander--I mean, it says Aaron,
> was b. abt 1665 and specifies that he was born in Scotland. Now I can't
> fit this into our reconstructions of Culnaman, with HMR Hugh and
> Alexander in Carnroe and all the rest of it, but it's getting a bit late
> tonight. Don't precipitately consign me and this theory to outer
> speculative darkness; it has merit, I think, and not least is that the
> name Aaron disappears in Ireland and I believe in America too.
Yes: that's a good point!
> It does not continue! I would say that Aaron is a VERY uncommon name in
> Scotland in the period. We know that RMT plays fast and loose with
> sources; once a mis-reading gets into the genealogies, it gets passed
> on. Think about it! Linde
I find one thing proven: lots of misreadings HAVE HAPPENED in the past and
have become accepted fact, so it's very difficult to unpick the myths!
--
Richard Torrens - torrens@xxxxxxxxx
Torrens families Genealogical site http://www.4QD.co.uk/torrens/
Torrens Mailing list: to join, click on the link below.
<mailto:torrens-l@xxxxxxxxx?Subject=subscribe>
Descendants of Thomas Torrance [#6] abt 1718 -
married Anna Mitchell -
Samuel Torrance [#9] 5 Apr 1750 - 5 Dec 1843
married Anna Root [1] -
Thomas Torrance [#10] 1.1751 - 14 May 1842
married Eunice Lacey -
Hugh Torrance [TT] -
Styles Torrance -
Joseph Torrance [#11] 7 May 1759 - 3 May 1843
married Sarah Mitchell -
Descendants of Samuel Torrance [#5] - 14 Jan 1788
married Jemima Parke -
Thomas Torrance [ST) 1742 - after 1819
married Mary Unknown -
Elizabeth Torrance [St] 12 Jun 1748 -
married Buel Hough -
Alexander Torrance [ST] 1749 - 1823
married wife 1 [AT] -
William Torrance [ST] abt 1750 -
married Lucy Castle -
Nancy Torrance [ST] -
married Noah Woodward [Jr] -
Joseph Torrance -
Samuel Torrance [ST] - 17 Jun 1836
married Anna ??? -
Lydia Torrance [ST] -
married Mr. Huff (Hough) -
Ezra Torrance - 14 Apr 1823
married Ann unknown2 -
Abigail Torrance 29 Nov 1754 -
married Mr. Welsh -
John Torrance [ST] -
married Rhoda Lacey -
Descendants of Aaron Torrence [#7] c: 1722 - after 1795
married Susannah Finley - 1722?
Joseph Torrence [#12] 2 Dec 1751 - 23 Feb 1831
married Mary Paull -
Capt. Samuel Torrence [#13] 1755 - 24 Jun 1795
married Jean McConnell - 29 Nov 1808
John Torrence [#14] -
married Jane (McConnell) Jolly -
David Torrence [AT] 1762 -
married Martha McConnell -
married Elizabeth Irwin -
Susannah Torrence [AT] 5 Dec 1775 -
married Mr. Frost -
Descendants of Thomas Torrance 1.1751 - 14 May 1842
married Eunice Lacey -
Irene Torrance - c: 1795
married Joseph Tuttle -
Ezra Benedict Torrance [#18] 7 Mar 1774 - 28 Sep 1828
married Jemima Morehouse 19 Jul 1773 - 1 Jan 1830
Moses Torrance -
Richard Torrance 1784 - 10 Sep 1852
married Abbie Sherwood 1780 - 1869
Lewis Torrance [#19] -
Hiram Torrance -
Sarah Torrance [TT] -
Lucinda Torrance -
Betsy Torrance -
Lears Torrance -
Emma Torrance -
Chloe Torrance -
married Mr. Curtis -
Eunice Torrance -
married Mr. Fulkerson -
Descendants of Joseph Torrence [#12] 2 Dec 1751 - 23 Feb 1831
married Mary Paull -
George Paull Torrence [#20] 14 Feb 1782 -
married Mary Brownson Findlay -
Nancy Browson Torrence 8 Dec 1811 - 21 May 1889
James Findlay Torrence [#31] 22 Aug 1814 - 28 Sep 1887
married Ann Rebecca Findlay 26 Jan 1817 - 11 Feb 1895
Joseph Torrence [GPT] 15 Jan 1817 - 27 Apr 1869
John Findlay Torrence 24 May 1819 - 28 Jan 1883
Mary Paull Torrence [#32] 22 Jun 1821 - 24 May 1864
married William Henry Harrison -
Jane Torrence [GPT] -
Eliza Jane Torrence 14 Mar 1827 - 29 Dec 1861
married Robert D Handy -
Samuel Torrence [GPT] -
Aaron Torrence [GPT] 29 Sep 1832 - 12 Aug 1893
William Irwin Torrence 9 Sep 1835 - 4 Jul 1881
Harriet Rebecca Torrence 9 Sep 1835 - 12.1901
married Hugh Stewart -
Susannah Torrence [#21] 1784 -
married James Power 1799 - 1864
Clarissa Torrence 1793 -
married Samuel Russell -
Jane Torrence [#22] 22 Oct 1795 - 11 Nov 1795
married Col. William Ludlum Miller 6 Feb 1793 - 17 Nov 1867
Maj. Joseph Torrence [#23] 1799 - 30 Apr 1855
married Catherine Rogers 12 Jan 1812 - 23 Nov 1897
Samuel Torrence [JT1] 1806 - 1 Sep 1832
Aaron Torrence [JT] 1812 - 7 Jun 1880
married Mary Gibson Rogers 1804 - 26 Oct 1846
Elizabeth Torrence [JT] -
married John B Trevor -
Mary Torrence [JT] -
Martha Torrence -
married Joeph Guthrie -